The following is an extended version of the interview that ran in our November 2017 print issue.
Photo courtesy Modlin Center for the Arts
For fans of soul music, the opportunity to hear New Orleans native Irma Thomas sing live is a special event. Thomas, 76, will appear in Richmond for the first time in nearly two decades as part of a Modlin Center show with Blind Boys of Alabama and The Preservation Hall Legacy Quintet on Nov. 11. With an expressive twang that can navigate bluesy laments (“Anyone Who Knows What Love Is Will Understand”), sexy romanticism (“It’s Starting to Get to Me”) and sheer yearning (“Time Is on My Side,” later popularized by the Rolling Stones), the Grammy winner (for 2007’s “After the Rain”) marks her 59th year in show business. Thomas tells why she refuses to mix gospel with rhythm and blues during her performances and what she really thinks of Mick Jagger.
RM: Are you back in New Orleans now?
Irma Thomas: Yes, I've been back since 2007. I came back to my original home before Katrina.
RM: Do you have plans to reopen your nightclub, the Lion’s Den?
Thomas: Nope. It's just too much. I'm not getting any younger and the nightclub business is a 24/7 type of job. I enjoyed it, and I think we did a lot of things there that other clubs weren't doing, but it's really a job. So no. We had it for 24 years - that's long enough.
RM: Has your life changed at all since winning the Grammy?
Thomas: Well, for some reason, after I won the Grammy, my work went out the door. I got less work after I won it than before when I didn't have one.
RM: Wow. Any idea why that is?
Thomas: I have no clue, because my prices didn't go up substantially. I didn't double my price or anything. I still have the same back-up band I've always had with a few exceptions, and I still do the same show I always have, where I take requests from the crowd. Irma didn't change, I just won a Grammy. My big mistake may have been in getting an agent. I didn't have an agent before I won the Grammy.
RM: Any plans for a new CD?
Thomas: I don't know. The money you spend recording one, you'll never recoup because the minute that it comes out, people can get it free and download it. I would love to go into the studio again but the industry has changed so much that's it's confusing as hell to me. I remember the days of payola, but I think it's worse now. They just have a different way of doing it.
RM: You are known for involving audience favorites in your shows. Have you ever just said flat out 'No" to a request?
Thomas: Well, sometimes I’ll say, you know, ‘I don’t really do that one. Is there another I can do for you?’ And often times it’s one that my band doesn’t know, so I’ll sing it a cappella. One thing I don’t do is mix my gospel music with my R&B music. My followers know this, but some new listeners might ask for a gospel song, and it ain’t gonna happen. I don’t mix the two.
RM: Why is that?
Thomas: It’s how I was raised, as far as my religion is concerned. When you mix gospel and [secular] music, you are sending a mixed message. Religious music is not entertainment. You can’t go out there and sing ‘Don’t Mess With My Man’ and then follow it with ‘Amazing Grace’ … c’mon, man.
RM: Much of your early work was with writer/producer Allen Toussaint. He's been called a genius. Talk about him.
Thomas: He was instrumental in the early stages of my career. I recorded a lot of his writing and I worked with him off and on throughout the years. In fact, a week before he died, he and I were on a cruise ship together doing shows. We came home and he died a few days later. He was very laid back, the consummate gentleman but he was very serious about his music. I think he was a genius because he could tailor make songs for people - once he heard you sing and learned your ability and the types of things that made up your personality, he would write just for you. And he was very good at that.
RM: A few years ago, an album of unreleased sessions you recorded in the early '70's for the Cotillion label was put out. Did you have any input into any of the reissues of your early work?
Thomas: I haven't a clue as to what is on that album. See, when I won the Grammy, all of these record labels just jumped on the bandwagon. I'll hear from a friend that they just bought a CD of mine. 'I didn't know you had a CD out,' they'll say. And I'll ask them to pick me up a copy the next time they're in the store and I'll reimburse them. And then someone will request something during a show and I have to stop and think about it. 'Do I know that song?' I might not have heard it since the day I was in the recording studio. (laughs)."
RM: One of your albums, In Between Tears from 1973, produced by Jerry Williams (Swamp Dogg), has a real cult following. But I understand there was friction between you two.
Thomas: There was a monologue on there ("Coming From Behind") right before the version of 'Wish Someone Would Care' and he took credit for it. I called him on it and told him, 'you didn't write it, I did.' Vocally, I'm not happy with the total product. It sounds to me like I'm screaming because he put the songs in a higher key than I'm comfortable with. But I still get requests for "In Between Tears" and "You're the Dog." The song I really liked, other than "Wish Someone Would Care," was "We Won't be in Your Way Anymore [an earlier b-side cut with Williams]."
RM: You've written some of your best songs, like "Wish Someone Would Care." Do you still write?
Thomas: I'm not prolific, but when I get an idea, I put it down quickly so I don't forget it. I have a voice activated recorder that I use to sing ideas into. 'Wish Someone Would Care' just came out of the blue. It wrote itself.
RM: What attracts you to a song?
Thomas: A song has to have a good storyline, and then a good melody. It has to make sense to anyone who is listening to it so it has to make sense to you. You have to ask yourself, 'would my audience like this song?'
RM: Have you ever sung "Time is On My Side" with the Rolling Stones?
Thomas: No. That’ll probably never happen. Keith [Richards] used to come to New Orleans, and I’ve talked with him, but I haven’t seen Mick Jagger since they came to my show in London in 1966 and told me they were going to record [the song]. And then when it came out, people thought I was covering a Rolling Stones song [laughs], even though I did it first. I still say it — I’ve said it in front of Keith — Mick Jagger can’t sing, and he’s laughing all the way to the bank. I didn’t perform ‘Time Is on My Side’ because of all that; [I] took it out of my set. But I did a duet with Bonnie Raitt on it a few years ago, and she convinced me that I should perform it again.
RM: What advice do you give budding singers?
Thomas: Go with what makes you comfortable, what you can live with. Because, believe me, if you don't like it and don't believe in it, it comes out in your voice.
Irma Thomas, the Blind Boys of Alabama and The Preservation Hall Legacy Quintet will appear at the Modlin Center for the Arts at the University of Richmond on Nov. 11. 7:30 p.m. $10 to $60. 804-289-8000 or modlin.richmond.edu.
